Hey Guys,
In the video below I get access to a demo of Trade Vantage and have a look through it. Within a few seconds of using the demo I already spot inconsistencies and suspicious signals.
The video below exposes several issues I have found with Trade Vantage including repainting signals and poor forward trading performance.
The first thing that struck me as strange about Trade Vantage is the repainting of signals. On the Trade Vantage sales page Dustin Pass shows us Trade Vantage signals on a EUR/JPY chart. Looking at the same chart on the Trade Vantage demo platform shows different trades. One trade in particular was repainted from what looks like a losing trade to a winning trade. In my opinion this is extremely shady.
The other problem with Trade Vantage is that the signals do not seem to work too well when forward traded. I explain this further in the video above.
All in all Trade Vantage seems very shady to me.
Is Trade Vantage a scam? Discuss below.
Art
I agree with your analysis. The fact that they keep making excuses and/or back tracking their comments is evidence enough something is wrong with the company & they’re desperately trying to hide something. Given all these facts, not only would I caution people from purchasing their product, I would caution people from giving their payment information to these people like a credit card number or some other payment method with the fear of identity theft.
Nick
@fceaaeadc8a6b1577dcbec77afacb301:disqus Yeh I have heard talk of their excuses, market conditions have changed apparently so they need to fix the software.
News Flash, market conditions change all the time. So if they need to update the software whenever market conditions change what use is it? The software will need major updates every month or two. I do not buy that story.
They claim the software is a form of artificial intelligence. If the software was intelligent you would think it could adapt itself to changing market conditions.
Jan
What do you think to ‘Blessings’ Nick? The company seem genuine. (link removed)
Nick
No links to sales pages please Jan. I am not sure about the page you linked to. I do not see why they seem genuine but I do not know enough about them to comment.
Jan
Sorry Nick, no sales pitch intended, I have no financial or any other interest in the company. Was just wondering if you had an opinion on their products. The actual bot is free, but I don’t know enough about bots so guess that is a good enough reason not to get one.
Steve P
No software or EA is ever going to trade profitably longterm. There is no short term fix to trading if you don’t have the desire to learn to trade, in your own right, then you are better off walking away from the markets and save your money.
Ask yourself this question if you had software that could trade profitably, for you, would you want the hassle of marketing it and the support you would need to provide to new customers or would you just quietly get on with trading your software and raking in the pips.
Nick
Steve, I agree that software wont work long term.
As for the selling aspect I honestly would sell it. If a scammy piece of software can make millions for the developer imagine how much a genuine piece of software could make.
Even if I were making $5 million a year in Forex making an extra $2 million is software sales would be worth the hassle. That being said, Dustin is always marketing a new product. That to me is suspicious.
Steve P
Are you telling me if you where making very good money from trading you would still want more? I think you need to know when enough is enough or else what’s the point.
By trading we are just playing the money game and that’s all it is a global game and as long as people want to play someone, out there, will want to sell you a short cut to getting rich.
There are no short cuts we have to master trading for ourselves.
Good Luck
Nick
What the point?
When it comes to making money and keeping it, diversification is the key. If my only income comes from Forex and for whatever reason I can no longer trade Forex I am screwed.
If I diversify by investing in property, selling courses, earning advertising revenue from a website I am in a much better position. If Forex trading become impossible I still have several fall backs and I don’t go hungry.
What are the chances that Forex trading will end? Slim to none. However, it is important to diversify. You know the old saying, don’t put all your eggs in one basket….
Steve P
The point is too many people go into trading with no idea of what they want from it apart from making “loads of money” with as little effort as possible. It’s that approach that makes them so vulnerable to marketeers selling them what they want to hear, that trading is easy and they can make thousands of pounds each and every week.
How many people, out there, would be happy making 1% of their trading bank each and every week? Would greed or boredom creep in and you would want 2% or 5% a week. How do you know you’ve got where you want to be, with your trading, if you don’t know what you want from it? Set small achievable targets and keep going until you reach where you want to be, but know where that is.
Jennifer Kok
Thanks! You are a bit too sound in your video.
Nick
A bit too sound? Not sure what that means?
Berek
Fishy for sure but I think more time and trades are needed before we discuss it’s post release performance. Afew days worth on a daily chart is statistically irrelevant. The reprinting on the other hand is worrisome. Best to just learn to trade on your own no magic bullet required.
Nick
Berek, I somewhat agree. However, the point I am making is that prior to release the software shows an endless stream of winners. 95%-100% of the trades are winners. Then all of a sudden the day the software is released the software starts spitting out break even trades and failed trades….. I find it very suspicious that the change is so drastic and immediate.
Mattew Bell2
Hi Nick, you should let it run on 1min chart for an hour or so, take a screen capture. Then reload the chart again and see if it all changes on you to be more smooth.
Good work otherwise
Nick
I wish I could but the software only works on daily charts mate.
serge
Hey Nick, what was a reason to attempt such a test? My opinion your time would be spent much better if you published another lesson on price action techniques :^)
Nick
Serge, I understand where you’re coming from….
I love Forex, I have been trading financial markets for 10 years now, Forex for 8 years. I grew from a kid to a man in this industry. When I first started trading there weren’t many scams around. The few scams that did exist concentrated on getting people to attend live seminars for $800 per seminar.
Over the years I have seen a large influx of newbies coming to Forex. With the newbies came an unsavoury element, scammers. These low lives have burrowed their way in to this industry that I love and crippled it. You can’t type Forex into Google without thousands of scammy web pages popping up. It makes me sad and it makes me very angry.
Fortunately I am in the unique position to do something about these low lives. I have a large following here on bullrushacademy.com and I have a reputation for honesty in this industry. This means that I can get the word out about these scammers. I can save hundreds of people from making very costly mistakes. I can actually use my position to make a difference, to make Forex a safer and better place.
This is why I made these videos.
As I said above I have a reputation for honesty and I keep my reputation by being honest. So even though this should probably be left unsaid, I will say it. I also do these videos for self-promotion. The videos I made have brought bullrushacademy.com a lot of traffic. So my reasons are also a little self-serving.
However, my main reason is to help people from making costly mistakes.
serge
It’s a good discussion going on here… Thanks man, appreciate your honesty & openness. It seems to be rare in this business nowadays. You have a very noble intention indeed.
But having said that, Let’s face it, whatever tests YOU do, you can not test everything. Even if you prove something does not work, people will keep trying similar software & EAs because it is in human nature to take the path of least resistance first. Been there, done that myself :^) And as you say with the growing # of people coming into fx world there will never be a shortage of suckers.
I believe only my OWN (not someone else’s – in this case yours) negative experience would teach ME
not to take shortcuts, but to put efforts into learning the basics that
really work! That’s why I said you could better use your time elsewhere.
Anyway, did not mean to discourage you mate. Just my opinion from my own experience… Hope there are folks out there whose experiences were better, who never bought a dodgy FX course/system in their lives and started making money using solid fundamental strategies from day One :^)
Cheers
A. Warning Brother
I know we are not talking about the same product…but I am talking about the SAME PERSON. Like an idiot I bought into another of Dustins promises. ORACLE! What a real piece of….work, a program that helped you trade the News announcements. What a crock! Could I get a trade open in time, rarely..if I managed to then the closing re-quote would rob me of any profit. Could I get a refund? Hey….has hell frozen over yet?
As respondent Steve says…..’Ask
yourself this question if you had software that could trade profitably,
for you, would you want the hassle of marketing it and the support you
would need to provide to new customers or would you just quietly get on
with trading your software and raking in the pips.’
I would go further…..why would any reasonably honest, non desperate person want to go the Affiliate Route to market something like this?
I used to get regular offers in my email from Dustin, and his merry band of affiliates now I just tell them to ‘ Shut The Front Door – and go away!’ I suspect those of you with a lesser sensitivity will know what THAT means!
I suggest that people stay away from all these Barnum type sales letters. The Barnum effect is named after P.T. Barnum, the showman who declared
“there’s a sucker born every minute.” He found many ways to separate
“suckers”, as he called gullible people, from their money.
A Liked Reply
Nick
Oracle, I remember that one. I saw it in action and I agree it was pathetic.
I am really beginning to dislike affiliates. That being said I know a few honest affiliate marketers who thoroughly research a product before promoting it. While many affiliate marketers are just as shady as the scammy products they promote they are not all bad. Honest affiliate marketers exist.
As for the sales letters, I use them myself. The reason I do is because it is the only way to sell a product online. I do sell a course from time to time and I think there is nothing wrong with selling quality education…..
ggg
obviously, whatever system they are using – MA crossover or AI – its profitable only in a trending market. I dont thing drop of profit was intentional. Its just market went sideways.
Nick
I don’t think it was intentional either.
Honestly to me it looks like all the trade prior to release were just drawn on. It looks like they picked the tops and bottoms of trends and threw arrows on there. In my opinion any trade shown prior to release is fake.
How can you go from 90%-100% winners in 2012 to what is now a combined floating lost of 550 pips on GBP/USD and GBP/JPY.
550 PIPS FLOATING LOSS!
Prior to release the software looks to be flawless after release -550 pips on two trades and they are still open.
linny75
Many moons ago I bought a copy of the neural network software “Vantage Point”
http://vp.tradertech.com/ It was thousands of dollars (I can’t remember exactly)
It had a tremendous write up and great testimonials, the owner louis mendlsohn was in Van Tharps book so I was expecting great things, It didn’t take long before I realised that the whole thing echoed the 5 and 10 sma moving average crossovers ( sound familiar!) I was extremely lucky and got a refund on the software although none was offered. The trick is to tell you that you need to spend time working with the software to get the hang of it and eventually people give up or they find a way to make it work because they spent so much money on it. The forums were full of poor souls talking about how to make this software work for them which just shows the power of social proof that people doubted themselves rather than the software.
The premise behind the software makes sense which is that todays markets are so highly correlated that you can’t analyse in a vacuum but have to take into account what other markets are doing. My take on this is that yes markets are correlated and do move together a lot of the time, but quite often another market moves FIRST and the way to take advantage of this infomation is that it gives you a heads up where your market may be going in the next few days. For example The Aussie broke out of its channel on the 12 of april and the gbpjpy and eurjpy on the 18th april, the eurusd which looked like it was going down has been moving sideways. If you took into account the movement of the other markets it could prevent you going short on the eurusd which although weak and reacting to bad Euro News is correlated to the other currency pairs.
What am i saying? well just that don’t waste your money and most importantly your time, just learn about correlating markets and take that analysis into account with a quick glance to see where those markets may be giving clues to direction and you don’t need any software except your brain for that!
Nick
My girlfriend spent a fortune on Vantage Point. I think it cost here £2,000 and they kept trying to up-sell her to bigger and better packages for an extra £3,000. These days Vantage point is an old school scam. Funny how Dustin named his software Trade Vantage I wonder if it is a homage to Vantage Point.
linny75
that’s my thinking Nick
linny75
Just a heads up that if you are interested in analyses using the vantage point software and correlation then Greg Firman on Trade Planet does a weekly forex analysis using the vantage point software FREE
http://www.traderplanet.com/videos/view/109850-trades_for_april_17_2012
Mike French
Nick, is there any way I can see older posts?
Nick
Sure, just visit the blog home page
https://bullrushacademy.com/forex-blog/ and scroll down to the bottom. You will see big green numbers that allow you to naviagte to older posts.
You can also access the blog home page by clicking Forex Blog from the black menu bar above.
Bobbhim
There are a whole bunch of scammers out there fleecing poor inexperienced traders.
What newbies are looking for is direction on how to trade and are willing to shell out cash for this assistance. Nick your site here has superior analysis than any of those guys use.
Glad you took the time to check this software out.
Scott Wang
Hi Nick,
Great video! I can explain both the re-painting and the poor performance post-release.
As a “neural network” strategy, the historical data is constantly being re-evaluated and the best trading ‘model’ is selected.
Those lines on the chart are nothing more than a backtest that says “This is what I would have done in the past, using all the data I now have available.” They are *not* supposed to simulate a forward test, like saying “This is what I would have done in the past, using only data I had available prior to each trade.”
Therefore, whenever the trading model is updated, all those historical trades (and the max drawdown stats) will be updated to reflect the new model.
The big question you have to ask: Can an uber-optimized model based on historical data REALLY predict future price movement? We won’t know that answer without some more forward testing, but like your video shows, the last couple of weeks aren’t impressive. And by the time we have the data available to make a wise purchasing decision, the “doors will be closed”. Good grief.
Scott Wang
Forex Verified
Nick
Hi Scott,
So basically all the results that are claimed on the sales page as being real results are not? These guys just change the parameters whenever they get a few bad trades and pretty much rewrite history.
I really wish I could do that in my trading. Have a few failed trades, completely change my method and past trades become profitable.
Should they not have a disclaimer?
——————————————————
WARNING: The trades you see on this chart never happened. They are just suggested trades based on the latest edit we have made to the software. In a few weeks these trades may look completely different.
——————————————————
I doubt that would sell copies of Trade Vantage. Actually it seems like the truth is pretty ugly when it comes to Trade Vantage. They just make trades up as they go along. All their trades are repainted to make them look more profitable. This means all the trades on their sales page are based on a now outdated version of the software. Trade Vantage can just keep on rewriting history until they find signals that look good enough to sell.
So what does this boils down to? Fake trades are being shown on the sales page and Trade Vantage is selling a lie.The more I hear the worse it sounds.
Scott Wang
You got it. They are NOT real trades. They are “would-have-been” trades if the software knew the future price movement at the time of the order entry. lol.
Now, the idea of a constantly evolving, optimized strategy is a little intriguing I admit. The only reason we trade Forex is because we believe it has repeating patterns, right? Maybe some day this type of software will be able to find those patterns and signal them… but certainly don’t believe the results until you see them in a REAL trading account, not a fancy web page.
Scott
Nick
The problem is that the strategy is not really constantly evolving. I honestly believe that this is an indicator based strategy that has it’s parameters changed to suit changing market conditions.
I really do not believe there is any artificial intelligence here. In my opinion Trade Vantage is just a few IF AND THEN statements that produce arrows based on MA crosses and maybe the CCI.
I also have a suspicion that some of the trades are pure fantasy. In my opinion they have picked the top and bottom of large trends and thrown arrows in. I cannot prove my suspicion but in my find it is pretty clear.
Swede
Thanks for the additional update and research. I guess it will always be human nature to desire wealth without work, making such nonsense possible. Swede
Nick
Sad but true. I am sure that desire my videos many paid Dustin and his mob of affiliates $2k and he is not sitting on a million dollar pile of cash.
Art
Truth be told no one in their right mind will tell you their full trading technique (this includes strategy, rules & money management ) Why ? Because if they did & everyone followed the same trading technique then it wouldn’t work anymore.
What Nick does well is explain most of his trading strategy but it’s highly subjective & based on experience so therefore he can even fully disclose his trading strategy & becuase it’s highly subjective & can’t be replicated by the masses his trading strategy continues to be successful.
Nick
I do not fully agree Art. No matter how good your method is you wont get every trader in the world trading it. There will always be somebody to take the other side of your position. Even if there weren’t banks would always be willing to take the other side. So would hedge funds ect.
You’re technically right though any price action strategy is subjective to an extent but I have many students who replicate my strategy quite well. That being said it does take them time to get the hang of it.
Topgun
Nick,
The following link isn’t to a sales page but instead to a new article that came out today. http://tinyurl.com/8a44zpl
I think the article is very timely — considering the basic subject matter in this thread of potential scamming trading software.
– Topgun
Nick
Hahaha that was a great read. Thanks man.
linny75
A trade software I have a lot of time for is the Autochartist software which is offered free of charge by some brokers, see a list on the Autochartist home page. Autochartist is great for
scanning for chart patterns in the market and also scans for fibonacci and support resistance levels etc. It can alert you to opportunities you would otherwise have missed,
Nick
I have heard of Autochartist. It sounds good since it is technically jsut an extra set of eyes. Autochartist is the kinds of software that would actually be worth paying for…. and it is free, go figure.
Applet
Hi Nick, Can you please advise which video recording software you use?
Nick
Camtasia studio.
Konstantin.
Hi Nick.
Sorry for delay in replying, it was extremely busy week for me trying to set up Asian timezone on the data server, and fixing those issues we had with data inconsistency on it, which was the major reason of all those things that seemed weird for all of you, guys.
Nick, can you please contact me privately by email, so i’ll send you the fully functional PRO version of the software so you’ll be able to evaluate it long enough to see that all the claims are unsubstantiated?
I’m sure you will change your mind after playing with it for a bit! ;)
Thank you!
Best regards,
Konstantin.
Nick
Unsubstantiated claims? All of my claims are substantiated. I proved that there were repaints, I do not see how that is unsubstantiated. I also proved that upon release the software went from 100% win rate to massive losses.
You said above that you are “fixing those issues we had with data inconsistency on it”. What you said above proves that my claims are substantiated. If the claims I made were untrue then there would be no issues for you to fix…..
Anyway I sent you an email 2 minutes ago. I look forward to my PRO version demo. Hopefully you come through on your promise.
Konstantin.
Hi Nick.
I’ve sent you the PRO version of the software with brief ‘how to use’ tutorial. Please confirm you got it.
Thanks.
Nick
Have yet to receive anything I just sent you an email from a gmail address. If you send there I should receive it without issue.
Konstantin.
Ok, i’ve resent it once again.
Please confirm once you get it.
Thanks.
Nick
actually never mind it just came through, seems it was delayed for some reason.
trader CC
Hello Nick, are you able to check the pro version and will be glad you share your results with us.
By the way, received an email and the trade vantage is going for half the original price now, meaning $997.
Peter
OMG! How weird. I have just been viewing this page about trade Vantage. Then after reading I check my email and I suddenly get an email by…Guess who?? TRADE VANTAGE!!
“Dear Peter,
Thank you for showing an interest in Vantage FX. You can view our website at:…”
How Freaky IS That!! I don’t know why they think I have an interest in it. Are they tracking your page or something?? I am only interested in what a scam they are. Nothing else. Unbelievable. Anybody have the same experience?
Peter
Ok I made a dumb ass knee jerk mistake. Vantage FX is a broker LOL! Call me paranoid..
pissed
How do I turn off your monthly service, Konstantin. I’ve been trying for several month now and I’m not getting a response out of support staff. They keep charging me. Please turn off your service.
pissed
Everybody that reads this crap listen…..Do not have anything to do with Trade Vantage, Dustin Pass, Global Profit Systems. It’s a criminal organization and the lot of them needs to be rounded up and put into something.
Nick
errr, this post is against Trade Vantage, not for it.